The Logic of Donald Trump’s Podcast Strategy

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Donald Trump, sitting in an overstuffed sofa chair next to an assortment of Happy Dad hard seltzer, was having a great time. It was mid-October and Trump was on the set of a movie. Six feet undergroundwrestling podcast hosted by Mark William Calaway, better known as former WWE star The Undertaker, awkwardly laughs at a joke about the former wrestler forgetting how many wives he had.

“It’s the Donald Trump people don’t see” – Undertaker said. “I know you’re such a tough guy and have such bravado, but it’s good, it’s fun…. You have turned politics into entertainment again.”

Trump’s appearance on Six feet underground— which now has nearly 700,000 views on YouTube alone — was his 100th podcast interview, according to Subchaser Databasealmost all of them in the last two years. It’s part of an unorthodox media strategy that analysts say is surprisingly well thought out.

Podcast audiences have changed since the start of the pandemic, according to Gabriel Soto, senior director of research at Edison Research, a firm that has been tracking podcast data since 2006. liberal types—recent years have seen an influx of podcasts for listeners without college degrees, especially young men. More importantly, Edison’s study over the summer found that 19 percent of regular podcast listeners were undecided voters.

This is an obvious target for the Trump campaign, which has focused on undecided and politically disengaged young people. key demographic group in an attempt to defeat Vice President Kamala Harris.

“It’s very simple: These are people who could potentially vote, and they’re not your regular viewers watching TV news or even Fox News, but they’re tuning in to these new podcasts,” said a Republican strategist close to the Trump campaign. speaking on condition of anonymity to discuss behind-the-scenes strategy. “When you’re on prime-time television, you’re limited in what you can say and you need to brush up on what you say. But when it comes to a podcast, it’s often a more casual environment where you can talk about your favorite pizza and become more recognizable to the American people.”

This may be especially true of podcasts and digital shows, which have attracted Trump recently as his campaign has made a concerted effort to reach young men who vote inconsistently, if at all. These low propensity voters, as they are called, tend not to follow traditional news much; however, they are watching the very shows that Trump has recently appeared on: Andrew Schultz’s comedy podcast Flagrant; The Joe Rogan Experience; and sports themes Messing with the boyshosted by former NFL players Will Compton and Taylor Lewan. Interviews tend to be humorous and casual, and rarely focus on the finer points of politics. And the audience, not to mention the presenters, disproportionately male. (The Rogan Show, which is the most popular podcast in America, has 17.3 million subscribers, 80 percent of whom are men. according to Edison.)

Kamala Harris has employed a similar strategy in recent weeks, appearing on the typically apolitical podcasts of former NFL player Shannon Sharp and pollster Brené Brown. Harris’s recent appearance on Call her dadAlex Cooper’s podcast on pop culture and sexuality drew attention in the political press for Harris’s defiant response to Republican attacks on childless women (“it’s not the 1950s anymore”), but its real impact may have been with a large portion of the audience who were undecided or politically excluded. (Call her dad began as a podcast hosted by the flamboyant, conservative Barstool Sports empire. Republicans make up 24 percent of her listeners, and independents make up another 20 percent. according to Edison.)

“This is a very targeted method of influencing these people,” said the Republican strategist, who acknowledged that Call her dad the appearance was a “smart move”.

“It’s almost like a family,” Soto said of the community that has formed around the shows. “You can launch your favorite app, launch your favorite show, and jump straight to the topics that matter to you. And this proximity provides a quick and easy way to connect with the host.”

Listeners to these podcasts will learn things about Trump that they may not have known before. On comedian Theo Von’s show: Last weekend— who ranks ninth overall and fifth among men eighteen to thirty-five — the former president spoke about his late brother Fred Jr.’s struggle with alcoholism. (When the Canadian-American prank troupe known as the Nelk Boys – 8.2 million YouTube subscribers –followed Trump on his campaign plane, they discovered there was no alcohol on board.) Messing with the boysTrump spoke about his experience playing youth football.

The unpredictable nature of these interviews and the hosts themselves also means that Trump’s conversations carry some risk. Schultz, presenter Flagrantlaughed out loud at Trump when he called himself a “mostly truthful man”—a reaction he’s unlikely to get in the staid environment of network television. And during his three-hour appearance last week on The Joe Rogan ExperienceThe otherwise affable host sometimes seemed frustrated when Trump gave long, rambling answers to specific questions. “Your weave is getting wider,” Rogan once said—a reference to the term Trump invented to describe his confused responses – when Trump tried to answer a question about tariffs. (Trump also praised Robert E. Lee and said he would like to become a “whale psychiatrist.”)

But for the most part, the speeches likely worked with the target audience.

“It does have a legitimizing effect, perhaps for a lot of swing or apolitical voters,” said Abraham Josephine Reisman, author of 2023. Ringmaster: Vince McMahon and the Destruction of Americaabout Trump’s appearance at Six feet underground. “It’s not like anyone is going to be introduced to Donald Trump through The Undertaker’s podcast. But one thing that might endear him is the fact that Trump is as big a wrestling fan as they come, and that shows in this podcast.”

Jake Lahut is a campaign reporter based in New York. He covered the 2024 GOP primary in New Hampshire. Daily Beast and is the author of the Trail Mix newsletter. Previously he worked at Business Insider And Keene Sentinel.